Showing posts with label bars. Show all posts
Showing posts with label bars. Show all posts

Sunday, July 31, 2016

Equipment - Bar End Shifters

So the other day I got mentioned in a blog post by Steve Tilford. It was sort of a round about way of being mentioned, almost a rebuttal. He'd merged the ideas of indexed bar end shifting (his thoughts) with regular bar end shifting (my contribution), resulting in him pointing out his brother invented indexed bar end shifting.

In a comment to a prior blog post I paid tribute to Leonard Nitz as an inspiration for bar end shifters. The reality is that there were a number of riders in the New England area (Nitz was from NY so he'd have seen these riders) using a right side bar end shifter. Some used both right and left, but for us "crit guys" the right side was all we needed. For the left side we just used the simple and straightforward downtube shifter.

However, for me, locally, the real inspiration came from my teammate Mike Hartley. He's the guy that taught me a ton of what I know now. He taught me about leadouts. He demonstrated to me commitment in training, commitment to a race plan. For years he sacrificed his own chances in races so he could help me instead. I distinctly remember two races where he blew up trying to keep me at the front, apologizing profusely as he drifted back inside the last lap of the race (Meriden and Danbury). In other races his efforts helped me place well. I remember Cheshire Crit in CT particularly, and Montague in MA, the first race where we worked together as a team.

To be more complete I have to say that Mike and Lou Kozar were the two guys who inspired the bar end shifter. I wanted to be like Lou - he'd gotten second in the state RR the year before I met him, he was a Junior, he built my first race bike, and he got me set up equipment-wise so I could go racing. Lou, though, got more involved in the shop and eased up a bit on the racing. Also he was a stronger version of me. He was a lot stronger than me and his jump absolutely demolished mine. I'd only have a chance if he wasn't training - I had to do longer sprints to beat him. At any rate when he raced with me I knew my place and it certainly wasn't the lead sprinter spot.

Mike, though, he was irrepressible as a racer-tinkerer. He'd experiment with all sorts of stuff. And he came out and raced all the time.

For the bar end shifter he had a number of set up tips.

Remove Shift Lever Cover

First, remove the plastic shifter cover. The Suntour bar ends came with a hard plastic shift lever cover (the same goes for the Shimano levers). It numbed the feel of the shifts, giving you less direct contact with the bike. In the days of Benotto tape (it's only a bit better than a layer of electrical tape on the bars) and super thin leather gloves, "feel" was everything. You had to rely on yourself to make good shifts, to notice that there's a tick in some bearing, and having the bike connected to your raw nerve endings was a great way of knowing your bike. It wasn't like it is now, where you're sort of riding an SUV that happens to handle pretty well.


Bard end shifter with rubber cover still on.
This is a 1985 frame that I think broke by 1986.
Drop outs were not replaceable back then.
Note tubular tire strapped under the saddle.

When I first started racing I was afraid of changing actual parts. Changing out a part, fine. Altering an actual component, no way. It took me a while to simply slip off the shift lever cover.

You can see the texture on the shift lever here, sort of a ridge to catch your pinkie or ring finger.
The plastic cover hid it, making it less "grippy"
From my post here.

Drill The Lever

Second, if you really wanted to, you could drill out the aluminum shift lever. Holes in aluminum levers fulfill two purposes, one more than another. You might think that holes in, say, a brake lever would help reduce weight, however minutely. You'd be right, if you were talking about homemade holes. But production holes, like the ones in Campy's Super Record brake levers? They were there for grip in the rain. Drilled out Super Record brake levers were actually heavier than their non-drilled out Nuovo Record counterparts.

However, if your levers were slick with water, the holes helped give you traction. It's like the diamond plate metal things on the trucks and such. The raised diamonds give you some semblance of traction.

Modolo Pro brakes, factory drilled.
Typically the aluminum was thicker on drilled out levers, increasing weight or keeping it the same.
Note the WOODEN cable stop on the downtube - I carved it myself.
Finally, the ultra thin Benotto tape. Nowadays you'd probably be sued for offering such a tape.

For those ultimate weight weenies you'd see the Nuovo Record levers (and a Nuovo Record small chainring, for the same reason - the "lightened" Super Record small ring was actually a touch heavier). With a shift lever, in the heat of a sprint, you wouldn't want it to slip in your sweaty fingers. So drilling the thing a bit would help with that.

At home we didn't have a good drill, I was scared of ours, and I really didn't use the drill press at the shop, so my bar end lever remained undrilled. Therefore no pictures as I don't have a picture of Mike's shifter.

Cut Bars

Third, Mike cut down his bar so that the shift lever would sit in the palm of his hand. One major disadvantage of a normal bar with a bar end is that the bar end is about 3" away from your hand. It's fine if you were on a touring bike, which is really what bar ends were meant for, but in a crit, with 200m to go, you didn't want to be sliding your hand back 3" to shift while you were sprinting your brains out.

Before I cut down my bars.

Mike's logical solution was to move the shifter up, and to do so meant to cut down the bars. He cut down his bars so much the bar end was basically pointing a bit down, not back. I imitated him, cutting a bit more at a time, until I reached the same conclusion he did - it was best to have the shift lever basically end the curve part of the drops. If the bar end sat flat it was too far back.


My cut down crit bend bars with Suntour shifter.
From here.

Because I was cutting the bar for shifter placement I cut less off the left side of the bar (no bar end shifter there). I cut at least one bar evenly, meaning the left side was way too short. I don't remember what I did but I think I raced with a "dummy" left bar end mount so my hand wouldn't slip off. Or I cut the bars more and turned them upside down to make a "time trial" set up.

Knowing me I probably did the latter.

When I went to Ergo levers I didn't change bars right away. Therefore I had to race with an empty bar end mount on the right side. When I got new bars I cut them down for no bar ends so I was okay.

Note the empty bar end mount on the right side, even though I have Ergo levers.

I still cut my bars down to this point nowadays, without removing the extra inch of bar for the bar end mount. The flat stuff on the drops I never use because it's useless and frankly a bit dangerous in a field. You can't do anything well from the ends of the drops - can't brake, can't shift, and you don't have as tenacious a hold on the bars as further up the drop.

What I cut off my bar currently; it's conservative as you can always cut more.
This is an FSA Wing Compact bar.

Retrofit Index Shifter

Fourth, Mike actually did retro-fit a downtube Shimano index shifter (SIS) onto a non-indexed bar end mount. It didn't have great ergonomics because a downtube shifter was much longer than a bar end shifter. His shifter ended up sticking way down. I don't remember if he cut it down or not. When I first saw it I was impressed with his work but not with the appearance.

It involved using a downtube frame adapter specific for the SIS shifter, mounting it to I think a Suntour bar end mount. I remember a bolt going through the bar end mount, one that wasn't the right one, probably a retrofitted Cannondale downtube mounting thing. Most frames had their downtube mounts brazed on so they were useless for retrofitting onto a bar end mount. Unless you brazed one on, I suppose.

How an SIS shifter (#7/#13) mounted to a downtube boss (#8)
Lifted off a forum.

However, Cannondale's aluminum tubing meant that the downtube bosses were bolted on, with a long bolt connecting the left and right downtube mounts. Unscrew them (from a trade in frame program that existed back then) and you'd end up with two mounts for downtube shifters that were actually threaded in the back. Perfect for mounting to some obscure place.

You can see the upper left piece is a downtube boss, like #8 above.
Mount the black piece onto a friction bar end mount and an index shifter would fit on it.
The long bolt reaches between the sides of the downtube.
This was lifted off a forum and the poster said they got it from Cannondale.de.

(On an aside we half joked about moving shifters around on a Cannondale. It'd be an easy process, just drill holes and bolt on the downtube mounts. You could have theoretically mounted the shifter further up the downtube, along the top tube, where ever. I'm sure it would have been possible (still is possible?) to mount the downtube bosses to a set of aero bars so you could have your shifters on them. Likewise, because the threaded bottle bosses were rivnuts, you could mount extra bottle mounts where ever you wanted, or, conversely, use the threaded inserts for other purposes, like anchoring a fender permanently to a touring frame. I remember doing this for a customer who took his bike all over the world, we went a bit nuts drilling out his frame and installing "permanent mounts" for various accessories.)

Flip Left and Right Mounts

Finally, when Shimano's index bar end shifter came out, the shift lever mount mounted the shifter below the center of the bar. This meant that the shifter was below where it would be compared to a Suntour shifter. With the whole "shifter in the palm of your hand" philosophy this was less than ideal, and in fact it was horrible. Although I was suitably impressed with Shimano's index shifting, the fact that the shifter sat so low (and also that it would have cost some money) kept me on Suntour. As someone that hasn't used Shimano drivetrains who knows what would have happened if I'd gone Shimano at that point?

Shimano SIS bar end shifters.
Note how the center bolt of the right shifter (top) is below the center of the bar.

Mike's solution was perfect. He flipped the left mount and installed it on the right side of the bars. He had to do some drilling and such but after a little bit of experimenting it worked out. Now the shift lever sat higher than the centerline of the bar, sticking up maybe a quarter inch. His bar end shift lever was literally in the palm of his hand.

For me it was too much. Honestly the budget was the big part because to get into Shimano's index shifting system (key word: system) you had to have, primarily, their freehub rear hub. I had no such hubs in my own inventory, nor any cassettes. Therefore to get into SIS I'd have had to spend money for shifters, the rear derailleur, rear hubs (for the cassette hub - I had all freewheel hubs), cassettes, cables, housing, chain... I just stuck with my Suntour stuff. It was free because I already had the whole set up and it worked fine.

And then 1988-89 rolled around and Shimano's STI levers became widely available. I saw an immediate effect at races, or, more specifically, in sprints on training rides. I used to be able to take advantage of my "shifting while out of the saddle sprinting" but now that advantage eroded pretty quickly. Not only that but STI worked when climbing out of the saddle on the hoods. Now I was the one being left behind as riders shifted gears in the middle of a slope.

The real kicker were the SUNY Purchase Tuesday Night Sprints. I used to be able to clean up there, out jumping the stronger sprinters and out sprinting the stronger jumpers. If you could jump better than me I'd out sprint you after shifting into a higher gear. If you could out sprint me I'd out jump you by jumping in a lower gear. When STI showed up suddenly it wasn't quite so simple. One rider started regularly beating me when he didn't have to jump in the same gear he sprinted in - Eric Min. He'd go on to found Zwift.

Sprinting at SUNY Purchase, or, more precisely, sitting up just after winning a sprint.

I had to wait until 1992 when Campy came out with their Ergo levers before I got back on a semi-level playing field as far as shifting while on the hoods went. Since then I've only ridden Campy. The lever + thumb button works well for me.

Anyway, that's my experience with bar end shifters. I was lucky to start racing in an era where one could pretty easily tinker with their equipment. It was a bit more modular, a bit more "parts put together". I used to do all sorts of stuff with my shoes, mainly drilling out new cleat mounts and adding straps to lace shoes (which makes me wonder what the attraction is to laced shoes again). I fiddled with hubs and brakes and rear derailleurs. I used the shop facing tool to steepen my head tube angle a bit, "facing" the bottom part of the head tube and removing a solid few mm of material off the bottom of it.

Currently it's not like that, with more integrated stuff, carbon stuff, etc. Even switching derailleur pulleys is sort of a big deal - back then everyone did it. And I highly doubt you'll see people altering Ergo lever mounts and such, it's just not worth it. There's very little optimization going on.

Or, perhaps more accurately, now that I think of it, perhaps it's more that I no longer have the time or inclination for such tinkering.

In a way that's sort of sad.

Tuesday, August 06, 2013

Equipment - Bar Drop Delta

Yesterday I alluded to this idea I wanted to explore further, related to the two different levels of drop on two handlebars on my red bike.

As a reminder I'll show the two bars. First is the Wing bar, the shallow drop one:

FSA Wing bar, shallow drop.
Note the drops are above the tire.

FSA Energy bar, deeper drop.
Note that the drops are about even with the tire.

For the longest time, after seeing pictures of Michele Bartoli at his peak, I wanted to have a shallow drop bar that allowed me to have a very low position even when on the hoods or tops. My rationale went as follows - since glute recruitment correlated directly with how far over I was leaned over, I wanted to lean over more all the time. This way I'd be using my glutes more - I'd be more powerful.

Plus it's more aero so if I was alternating standing and sitting on a fast uphill I could go faster if I was lower.

Bartoli in action with his super low bars.
I understand this was "that era" but the position is what's important here.

I know that I can simply lean over more while using a shallow drop bar, but that stresses my back. It's already messed up so I want to try and keep pressure off of it, and that means having a certain amount of extension with my arms, allowing me to support my upper body without much effort.

When the compact bars first came out I didn't really think of them as a solution to any problem I might have because, frankly, I like more reach and more drop, stuff the compact bars reduce. Then I realized that, hey, this might be the way to get the drops and hoods closer in height, allowing me to realize that Bartoli type hood/top position.

If I used a longer, lower stem I'd be able to put my hand positions in a tighter cluster, less delta in drop from the tops to the drops. This meant I would be closer to my "drops" position the whole time I was on the bike. This in turn would mean I'd have more power due to the fact that my body could recruit those powerful glutes and other muscles all the time, not just when I was in the drops

So I went out and bought an FSA Wing bar, a compact bar with a flattened top bit. More aero, right? I couldn't go wrong.

I also had to buy a longer, lower stem, I returned to shorter 170mm cranks to push my saddle up 5 mm, and I even contemplated changing pedals which had more "stack height". I needed to get higher on the saddle so that my bars would be the appropriate drop down.

The problem was that even with all that the bars were simply too high. The tops were fine but the drops were 2 cm higher up. I felt better on the tops, the hoods were basically the same, but the drops weren't great. They felt worst when I was sprinting out of the saddle. Unfortunately that's the most important thing for me.

The drops had to drop.

This led me to buying some FSA Energy bars. They have the same reach as the Wings but they have more drop, 2 cm worth. This would put me right back where I wanted to be, back to the amount of drop my crit bars had (which, in the old days, wasn't considered much). The only thing was that I had gotten to like the bend of the FSA Wing drops and the Energy drops looked different.

Therefore I avoided making the change, trying to make the Wing bars work.

Finally, last week, I gave up. I tried the Energy bars with their deeper drop. I immediately felt the difference. Although the Wing bars had about the right reach the Energy bars felt just right, like slipping on a pair of well fit jeans.

After two rides on the trainer I decided that the levers were positioned okay on the Energy bars. This meant wrapping the bars and heading out on the road.

To my amazement I trucked along on the deeper drop bars. They felt good, much better than the shallow drop Wing bars. I wasn't sure exactly what it was but obviously it had to do with the extra drop.

When I got back home the Missus asked me what route I rode because I got back too early for my regular loop. I told her I'd done just that, the regular loop. After checking Strava I saw that I set a PR for one section and top three times (for myself) in every other public segment. I'd done my loop faster than I'd ridden it since early 2012 when I started using Strava religiously to track my rides.

The next day I felt unfamiliarly sore, aches in my shoulders, arms, even the backs of my legs. The lower drop position had me recruiting neglected muscles.

I realized that the deeper drops allowed me to recruit more muscles. That implied that I'd be using my "regular" hoods/tops muscles a little less. Spreading the power stresses across more of my body would allow me to use more muscles, allowing me to use different muscle groups as I fatigue.

I have yet to race with the Energy bars but with four races coming up in the next month or so I'll have plenty of chances to test them out. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

Saturday, February 23, 2008

How To - Bar End Shifters for Crits

So someone recently said that bar ends are dangerous for crits. If someone said that to me, you know what I'd say?

"Are you serious?"

Tell Paul Curley (umpteen time Nat Champ), Pat Gellineau (former small country - Trinidad? - Olympic team, also multi Nat Champ) that their bar ends are dangerous. They're in their 50s and regularly hand Cat 3s half their age their derrières on a plate. And that's after winning a Masters race or two earlier in the day.

Bar ends have fallen out of favor with the advent of the brake-shifter integrated lever, but before the whole STI/Ergo thing, "crit specialists" were the only ones using them. The rest of the racers pooh-poohed them as being a bit too, well, obsessive.

The new brake-shift levers (or "brifters" as they're sometimes called) make it easy to have your brakes close at hand while you're shifting. A typical anti-bar-end argument is that this wouldn't be the case with bar ends - shifting would prevent you from braking and braking would prevent you from shifting.

This warning simply doesn't fly when you're dealing with properly mounted bar ends. I agree that having your hands near brakes is pretty important during a race, and I typically spend most of my time (when at/near the front) on the drops, the only place from which you can brake 100% effectively.

However, a properly set up bar end shifter bike will allow you to have a finger on the brake lever and a pinkie on the shift lever at the same time, even with medium size hands. I know because I raced with a bar end for 8-10 years or so.

I never used a left bar end shifter (for the front) because in virtually all crit races shifting the front is not as critical, and since it takes a while to shift the chain from one chainring to another anyway, it's not as critical to have the shifter at your fingertips. Look at the various riders that use a left downtube shifter with a right shift-brake lever.

Proper set up is critical in order to use bar ends correctly, but that's the case for anything that has to do with ergonomics and/or fit. Slapping a set of bar ends onto any drop bar is pretty careless and irresponsible. For virtually the whole population, doing so will prevent the rider from both braking and shifting without moving their hands. This is not desirable because a rider may suddenly need to brake when they're shifting. If they can't, they may crash or cause a crash, neither a desirable action.

You should probably use an aluminum bar since you'll have to cut it down significantly. I cut approx 3" off the right side and about an inch less on the left since I used downtube left shifters. In this age you may not have the option of using a left downtube shifter, in which case both sides should be even. On the right side I'd cut about 1" into the curve of the bar.

Note the far end of the bar, the right side, is cut a bit more, perhaps an inch more.

My preferred crit bars were mainly Cinelli 65-40s, 65-42s, and the Gimondi bend 3ttt. Curiously enough, they were all considered "crit bend bars". Imagine that.

I cut the bars down so much I regularly mix them up with my old bull horn bars when I dug through my box o'bars.

Which is the old bullhorn and which is the Crit bar?

The hint is where the logo is on the center of the bar and which one has the factory holes for brake cables. (Hint - the bar that's in front of the other bar is the bull horn)

The extra cut on the right side allows the shifter to be squarely under the heel of my palm when I have a finger on the brake lever. That's how I figure out where to cut - grab the bars on the bike, put a finger on the brake lever, and mark where the heel of your hand sits. Then subtract the length of the shifter mount/body thing and cut there.

Note that the heel of my hand sits on the lever mount. Note for the Suntour shifter that the shift bolt is centered in the bar, i.e. it's not above or below the midline of the bar.

For the left side just cut so the heel of your palm has some place to sit. Since the shifter mount/body is about an inch long, the left bar ends up about an inch longer. Once the shifter is mounted, both sides are "equal" in length.

Note that the heel of my hand sits at the end of the bar. Since the bike is not built, you'll have to take my word that my hand is in the right place. It is.

You lose the flat part of the drops (the bit that sticks straight back) but that spot is a dead spot anyway. You can't brake, you can't shift (with any system except improperly mounted bar ends), so get rid of it. As a bonus you'll virtually eliminate the chance of hitting said end of bar with your knee.

With Shimano bar ends it's better if you mod your shifter so the mounting body sits upside down in the bar (i.e. it points up, not down - to do this you swap the left and right mounting bodies and drill out the hole or something). This way you can use your pinkie for more of your shifts since the shifter is closer to said pinkie. It happens to stick down less when you're in the smaller cogs. However, in fairness, I don't think either of the racers I named run unusual shifters. One uses an old Suntour shifter, the other I think uses standard Shimano shifters.

Reversing the mounting body is not required on Suntour bar ends since the bolt holding the shifter is in line with the bar center, not 1-1.5 cm below the centerline like Shimano.

I also drilled out my bars for the shift cable. Note the hole in the bar about an inch forward of the shifter. Note the drilled hole for the brake cable (this was something 3ttt expected you to do on this bar).

You'll also have to sacrifice the "jacked lever" and "jacked bar" position that seems to be in favor nowadays. Such bar and brake lever setups require you to sacrifice rideability in the drop position because they are only effective when on the hoods. Since bar ends require riding in the drops a lot, you won't want to sacrifice being able to brake or shift from the drops.


Comparing it to my current setup - pretty similar shape. Things don't change over 20 years. In case you're wondering why my bars are pointing up so much, I just reassembled my bike after a trip and the bars are a bit "jacked". My bad.


Note the heel of my hand sits on the end of the bar. My hand is a bit awkward looking because I'm trying to reach to the other end of the bike to take the picture. Note my thumb on the shift button and finger on the shift lever. I can shift, brake, and sprint without moving my hand.

Properly mounted, a bar end shifter would work great even in this day and age of the brifter.

The only thing you have to think about?

Where to put your left (downtube) shifter.

Monday, January 08, 2007

Wanted: crit bend bars (40-41 cm)

I've been slowly using up my stock of crit bend bars - I'm down to a couple Mavics and some "use last" 3ttt. Like many riders I started out on Cinelli 65's but their insistence on a 26.4 clamp diameter dropped them from favor a long time ago.The Mavics were discontinued about 10 years ago and I got as many as I could when that happened (a grand total of.... two), and I have both mounted on current bikes. I saw a used one on eBay go for $75 or so. The 3ttt is, I think, the Felice Gimondi model. I also have two of those, but both are sketchy after crashes, being the superlight aluminum. They both creak (indicating a probably internal crack) so they are not mounted. In the off season I've been switching to a square bend bar just to "save" my crit bars.

I also have some Cinellis but I cut them all for my bar end (in those pre-STI/Ergo days) and they are somewhat unusable - the right side of the bar is about an inch shorter than the left. Plus they're that 26.4mm clamp diameter.

My body geometry and riding style are such that even with crit bend bars I will bruise my forearms in sprints. With "square" bars, I bruise them whenever I use the drops aggressively. So I really want the crit bars.

I have been unable to find any source of new crit bars. With the bars being unavailable for something like 10 years, I think there is a HUGE pent up market. Just check out eBay and the like - they sell for a boatload of money. But there must be some out there. There are pictures of pros, esp those who sprint, and they have sets - they must be getting them from somewhere.

When something that works is discontinued, it seems that the users of the product have to find these things and hang onto them. I remember reading about Alexi Grewal and how he hoarded the Dura Ace AX cranks and pedals (they had sort of a negative axle to foot height since the ball of the foot was next to the axle). I'm sure the pros that use crit bars are doing the same.

Anyone listening? Deda? ITM? 3ttt? Ritchey?

Oh, and if you are listening, make them in aluminum please.