tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36139180.post8760992924420934600..comments2024-03-19T05:40:22.017-04:00Comments on Sprinter della Casa: Racing - Avoiding CrashesAkihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00430651087205849350noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36139180.post-78043658846962681532012-02-09T15:28:53.696-05:002012-02-09T15:28:53.696-05:00I thought about this, and no, I don't have a c...I thought about this, and no, I don't have a current clip or post in queue that covers cornering in detail. The closest is a yet-unpublished clip of the Palomar descent (but it's really long, not sure how to break it up). It's an example of how to do it, but as for actual instruction... I have to work on some stuff. There are a few posts from before:<br /><br /><a href="http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2012/01/training-working-on-descending.html" rel="nofollow">Descending stuff.</a><br /><br /><a href="http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2011/10/how-to-lazy-steering.html" rel="nofollow">Cornering while driving</a><br /><br /><a href="http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-learning-to-corner-when-youre.html" rel="nofollow">Part of how I learned to corner</a><br /><br /><a href="http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2006/10/cornering-lines.html" rel="nofollow">More cornering off the bike</a>Akihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430651087205849350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36139180.post-85943278290359000022012-02-09T15:08:54.159-05:002012-02-09T15:08:54.159-05:00Aki,
If you have some video guidance on turning ...Aki, <br /><br />If you have some video guidance on turning in early, late, correctly that be used as a guide, that would really helpful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36139180.post-47619204089820350642012-02-06T08:53:56.641-05:002012-02-06T08:53:56.641-05:00Anon, I appreciate your feedback. However I see a ...Anon, I appreciate your feedback. However I see a few errors in your thinking:<br /><br />1. When I race on clinchers, I'm on training tires (I almost never own "racing clinchers" since I have at least one set of tubulars for racing). I've never had an issue with traction on clinchers except in the rain (and I'm a bit iffy in the rain regardless so that's my fault, not the tires').<br /><br />2. Proper cornering involves everyone. The inside can work but too often riders come in too much (as you said). The inside line thing is a general "rule of thumb". I actually don't follow this rule in many situations, but it's my default mode when dealing with an unknown field. If it's necessary to communicate then someone is doing something wrong, typically the one diving into the inside (whether from the inside or the middle of the field).<br /><br />3. Slide-outs are, coincidentally, related to turning in too early, caused by fear. In fact you say that directly, that you turn in early to avoid sliding out. What you should know is that, <i>in general, turning in actually contributes to sliding out</i>.<br /><br />In car racing, you'll see a lot of skid marks <i>exiting</i> the corner, where guys who have turned in too early lose traction as they try and stay off the gravel/grass. Sliding out on a bike is extremely rare when taking the right line; it's much more common when turning in too early and then having to turn harder to clear the curb. A late turn in gives you a lot of room to maneuver, even if something weird happens.<br /><br />There are two instances when people turn in early inadvertently, at least in most crits:<br />A. Scared. The rider doesn't trust himself enough to turn in later.<br />B. Rider is desperately trying to move up, having been caught out of position.<br /><br />In A, there's nothing you can do at the moment. If you find yourself turning in early, buy and play Gran Turismo whatever version. It really punishes early turn ins and really rewards late apexes. In more real examples the Gerolsteiner rider that crashed at Milan San Remo (and grotesquely broke his leg) was turning in too early for many turns, virtually all of the ones on the DVD. I couldn't believe he made it that far before smashing into, in his case, a pole and a wall. Michael Rasmussen is a great example of an early turner, ditto Levi. Andy Schleck usually is (but at least he can follow a good cornerer). It's not a fitness/ability thing, it's about practice. Heck, I used to turn in early. I learned to turn in late partially so I could go a lot faster on descents. It's more fun that way :)<br /><br />For B there's a bit more to the picture. There are many ways to (safely) discourage riders from moving up the inside when it's dangerous. The key is to either slow enough for the turn or get better position before getting so desperate. There were a spate of pros crashing in the last turn of crits, usually because the guy went in super hot, inside, and simply couldn't turn hard enough. It's like anti-lock brakes - your stopping power is determined, usually, by your tires, because if your tires had enough traction, you wouldn't need anti-lock brakes. Likewise, if you go into a max 40 mph turn at 45 mph, you can't blame your tires for failing, it's a matter of staying within the tire's parameters. I've drifted to the outside of the first turn (the sweeping left) at New Britain following a Cat 2 attack there at 42 mph. We couldn't get around that simple wide bend at that speed and we both had to first ease, then brake, so we wouldn't end up in the woods. We both looked at each other, laughed, and waited for the field.<br /><br />There are tactical reasons to turn in early (watch my Rent race <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nxZUJbHGjU" rel="nofollow">where I lead out SOC</a>) but that's a different thing altogether.<br /><br />I hope this helps and let me know if you have questions or comments.Akihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430651087205849350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36139180.post-71378615571102878192012-02-06T01:05:31.227-05:002012-02-06T01:05:31.227-05:00In terms of the cornering...any theories as to why...In terms of the cornering...any theories as to why people take corners incorrectly? My gut-reaction is again, most people out there alone do not need to corner like that under speed, and therefore, they are unsure of the ability of a tire to hold its grip in a corner. <br /><br />Now - this gets somewhat back to equipment selection, but I have to admit, I have been guilty myself of cornering early because it felt as if that move would ensure the least amount of potential slide out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36139180.post-90133562515625308902012-02-06T01:02:48.908-05:002012-02-06T01:02:48.908-05:00As a CAT 4, I think equipment (tire selection espe...As a CAT 4, I think equipment (tire selection especially) plays into it. I always laugh when I see someone "giving it a go", but are on a training tire. I understand there are budgets, but Gatorskins on a corner is asking for trouble.<br /><br />However - how do you stay out of crashes....I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that most of the stronger riders can stay in the top 15 or so, and guess what....that in itself self-selects the better bike handlers or those more confident. <br /><br />And I disagree on the "inside corner" issue, especially if the guy to your outside likes to pinch off others on corners...but this leads me to this..<br /><br />Communicate....want to ensure the turn is taken correctly...inside riders should communicate for others to stay wide, or not pinch. But this goes throughout the race. The more crits you race, the more you can kind of see potential trouble.<br /><br />From my experience, most of the crashes I have seen are due to slide-outs, especially if there is a corner near the finish line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36139180.post-2966388980896415112012-02-04T00:31:44.081-05:002012-02-04T00:31:44.081-05:00That shallow turn-in is describing that fear-of-tu...That shallow turn-in is describing that fear-of-turning syndrome, the early apex. It's what gets more people into trouble than anything else. It's a pet peeve of mine, when I see pros turning really early, even when other guys around them are turning in properly. It means they're scared of the turn.<br /><br />I mainly race 3s so I can't really speak about the Masters. I'm guessing that most of the Masters understand cornering lines within the context of a field. Sometimes an early turn in is good but in general, when in single file, it's not.<br /><br />Having said that, forcing others to jump is a good tactic. So it all comes down to what you want to accomplish.Akihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430651087205849350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36139180.post-3840812451148109662012-02-03T21:57:54.679-05:002012-02-03T21:57:54.679-05:00Nice article. One thing I notice, as I race both M...Nice article. One thing I notice, as I race both Master's crits and Cat-3's, the 3's don't corner nearly as well. They ride into the corner shallow, have to slow more than necessary, then jump out of it to regain lost speed because of the original approach angle (shallow). The master's approach the corners wider and can then maintain their speed much easier during and after the turn. As a big guy, I can only conduct so many accelerations. I prefer the Master's races. In the 3's, if I'm tail-gunning and have room (always looking to make sure!), as we approach the apex of the turn, I can carve my own turn (wide in-tight-wide out) and this helps. But only if I know I'm not going to cut somebody off.Markhttp://thecblog.familyloftus.com/noreply@blogger.com